• Ron Dante is an American singer from Staten Island, NY. He is primarily known for being the voice of the Bubblegum Music group The Archies. He experienced a phenomenal success with The Archies, having sung on the song "Sugar Sugar", which was the top-selling single of 1969. He also had a hit with the song "Tracy" by a studio-group called The Cufflinks. Ron still regularly performs across the country with other sixties music acts. This interview was conducted before a show he did a BB King's in NYC in April with his Bubblegum brothers Joey Levine and The 1910 Fruitgum Company. Parts of this interview will be in an article I'm writing for Bubblegum Music for Elmore Magazine, coming soon!
  • Louie Pearlman: What I wanted to ask you about, if it's OK with you, is the process of recording all the stuff you did for the Archies, because I feel like that's been the least documented about your whole experience doing that. So I was wondering, what was your schedule like in the studio with the songs, how much interaction did you have with the guys writing the songs and how would you go about recording a typical Archies song in the sixties?
  • Ron Dante: Well, the first original Archies album was produced by a guy named Jeff Barry, who was a very famous record producer and songwriter. I mean, he wrote fifty hits in his day, from “Hanky Panky” to “Chapel of Love” to “Do Run Run” to “Be My Baby”. So, when he was assigned by Don Kirshner to be the line producer for The Archies, I was very very happy about that. And I auditioned for the lead role of Archie, and got it. I auditioned for both Jeff Barry and Don Kirshner. The first sessions were really like an assembly line. Jeff would go in and work with five or six rhythm players. Some of the best rhythm players in town, you know, drummers and guitarists, everybody. And I would come in kind of like after the rhythm track was set or just finally after they were working on it I'd be sitting in the booth for the vocals to start. And he would do maybe three tracks a session, in three or four hour sessions and then I would go in and he'd teach me the song as it was being recorded. And I'd go in and record it. We did it at RCA studios on 44th St. on 6th Ave and Broadway, which was a legendary studio. Every major RCA artist recorded there. Even Elvis recorded in that big studio, Studio C, which was a great studio. I remember, the musicians on it were incredible who played the stuff. You know, Hugh McCraken and David Spinoza and Chuck Rainey. Actually, Hugh McCraken and David Spinoza, who played on some Archie records, were the ones that Paul McCartney wanted to use when he came to town to do his Ram album, he wanted to do an album with New York studio musicians, so he used some Archies musicians on some of his cuts for the Ram album, which is very interesting! It was his first solo album, obviously. So, I was very happy to work with those people. I would sing my leads for Jeff, I'd double and triple track sometimes. And, it wouldn't take too long to get the lead down, within an hour, we'd have the lead. Then Toni Wine and I would go in and do backgrounds. Miss Toni Wine, of course, being the female voice on the first two Archie albums, the Betty and Veronica voices. And she was great. She was actually hit songwriter on her own, she wrote “Groovy Kind of Love” and “Candida”. So she was already a big studio singer, a writer of hits. It was a very high profile sessions. I must say, Don Kirshner was there, promoting us and making sure that all the sounds were right. He always contributed his input.
  • LP: I'm wondering how much Kirshner was around when you guys were actually recording?
  • RD: He was always around. He was there, he gave input. He had great musical sensibilities. He had great song sense. He's the one that chose “Sugar Sugar”. He said “You gotta do that song, for sure.” And he loved what Jeff Barry was writing, because Jeff couldn't miss. I mean, we knew that Jeff would come up with a number one hit. He and Andy Kim wrote “Sugar Sugar” and “Jingle Jangle”, two of our million sellers.
  • LP: Something that's really interesting to me about Don Kirshner with The Monkees and then with The Archies is that he sort of re-imagined how music should be marketed. And how hit songs were created and produced and gotten out to the people. Was that something that you guys talked a lot about? Or is that something that you left more to Kirshner? Or was this on your mind while you were doing it, that this was a different way to be promoting and marketing a music project?
  • RD: Donnie believed in the power of TV and the power of marketing. And he understood that people were very visual and they needed to see things. So, he was very interested with what happened on TV and in marketing. He really didn't talk to us about it, except to say that The Archies were going to get the biggest push of anything, because of the fact that we had a TV show going every Saturday morning on CBS. They actually made a merchandising deal with a cereal company to put the records on the back of cereal boxes, which they did: ten million cereal boxes. Post Sugar Crisp, I think had “Sugar Sugar” and “Jingle Jangle” and “Bang-Shang-A-Lang” were on the back. Little plastic cardboard records. He was a genius at it. He understood, this was a way to take it up another level. I must say, his vision has been copied time and time again since then.
  • LP: Yeah, I actually have some of those cereal box records, and they're kind of amazing that it was a decided form of distribution and it worked so well for you guys. So, let's talk about working with all those people on those sessions. If you have any fun stories about any particular songs that you remember. And feel free to talk about more obscure songs too. If there's anything that was your favorite to work on or anything that pops out in particular?
  • RD: Well, I must say that the first few sessions were the most interesting because we were developing the sound of The Archies. And I had to develop my voice to a certain pitch, a certain sound that I thought would work with the cartoon. We were making, you know, this was for teeny-boppers. So it had to be a young fresh sound. So, I remember, we worked on the vocal sound of “Sugar Sugar” in particular, until we got the right sound for that record. I remember, when were cutting the track of “Sugar Sugar”, the band, just couldn't get the pocket of the track, they just couldn't find the feel, until the music writer, Andy Kim, who had his own hit, “Rock Me Gently”, he came out and picked his guitar up. And he didn't have a pick, so he played the guitar with a matchbook. And they recorded that onto the “Sugar Sugar” track. And that was the sound of the rhythm, and the pocket, was Andy playing his matchbook guitar. And I must say, and of course, he destroyed the matchbooks, but boy, what a great sound!
  • LP: Yeah! It's got kind of a “snap” to it that other Rock and Pop records at the time didn't totally have. And maybe, that's the secret to it, playing with the matchbook. That's really interesting. I've never heard that story before. Was “Sugar Sugar” one of the earlier songs that you guys did for the recordings? Because I know it came out the second or third Archies LP?
  • RD: It was the second album and it wasn't the earlier songs. The earlier songs were “Bang-Shang-A-Lang” and a few of the other singles that came out. But “Sugar Sugar” was our third single from the second year of the show and it propelled The Archies and the music into another level. It was number one around the world, of course. In every country that played music. I have a 45 from every country. Like sixty countries around the world that printed up “Sugar Sugar” in their own language on the label. It's an amazing occurrence when that song took off. So that wasn't the earlier stuff. That was the second year.
  • LP: Yeah. And I know that you've said in the past that you grew up reading The Archie comics, so you were already quite familiar with the characters. And I was wondering, was there sort of, a discussion that was had with you guys about how to best embody the spirit of the characters? Were there sketches of the characters around when you were recording the music?
  • RD: Yeah, it really was left up to Jeff Barry and Don Kirshner. They had a vision of what it should be sounding like, which is why they auditioned a few voices for the voice of Archie, which would be the central piece of the records. My sound was really acceptable, I also had been doing commercials a lot. So the world was ready for my sound.
  • LP: Yeah, you already had a voice that was proven to be commercial, do you feel that's primarily why you got the gig?
  • RD: I also knew Jeff Barry and Donnie, long before I auditioned for them. I had worked for Don Kirshner in early '63, '64, '65, I had worked with him at his publishing company as a staff demo-maker. And I had done many background sessions for Jeff Barry. So they were very familiar with my sound and me. They knew that I would come through for the long work hours that we had to put in for the first seasons. It was an amazing thing, you know Jeff really had the concept of what the rhythm track should sound like. He saw the pictures of what the band would look like, so he would gather the exact instruments on each record. You didn't hear a bunch of horns and strings and any strange instruments. It was just guitar, bass, drums, and keyboard. That was the sound he went for and it worked.
  • LP: Yeah, that's very interesting. So, they really had in mind that the drawings of the characters were playing specific instruments. I've always thought The Archies sounded like the world's greatest teen garage-band, you know? It's like if consummate professionals were playing and singing songs written by teenagers and for teenagers, that is what it would sound like. So to me, that really makes sense.
  • RD: Yes.
  • LP: I just watched an interview from that Archies DVD from a few years ago. And you said that for some markets, what they did for "Sugar Sugar" is they stripped the name off the label of The Archies to make sure it would get played? Because the music was considered Teeny-Boppery and irrelevant? Is that right?
  • RD: Exactly. After the first couple of singles the radio stations the DJs, Program Directors, were kind of cooling off on the Archies idea. You know, it's really a cartoon group and the first two singles were OK, but the second one didn't do that well. So we were getting less airplay. So a promotion man in San Francisco just went in with the acetate, not the full record, and took the label off so the guy didn't know who the group was. And he said, "Just play this, for me, test it out tonight, see how people react to this sound and this song." And the DJ played it, he didn't even know the act and phones lit up, I heard. And the record spread from there across the country and then across the world. And it was just an amazing occurrence that this once song had what it took to be like a number one song million seller. To date, it's sold about fifteen million copies. It's a massive hit. And it still gets licensed for TV commercials and movies. Constantly, all over the world, they use Sugar Sugar for advertizements. It's an amazing occurrence. I'm glad that promotion man did that, because it set a wildfire of success for The Archies.
  • LP: So, to move on from "Sugar Sugar", what other tracks are you particularly fond of that you recorded with the Archies? They can be album tracks, singles, anything that you thought was particularly interesting or fun?
  • RD: You know, there's one song called "A Summer Prayer for Peace".
  • LP: Yeah, I like that song a lot too.
  • RD: Which, internationally got a lot of attention. It wasn't a big hit in America, because of the anti-war sentiments, because people were on both sides of the coin. But we were number one in South Africa, in Capetown, South Africa. It's very interesting that it would be number one there. I like that because it's not just the song with the lead vocal, there's a spoken word in it, it outlines the populations of the world and each country. And it's so funny that the number that we give for the population of each country has doubled and then some since that record was released. There were three billion people in the world then and now there's seven billion, I think. It's amazing in a forty year period, it's doubled and then some. It's a little bit of history.
  • LP: Yeah, that's very interesting. There's some stuff on some of those records, like definitely "Summer Prayer for Peace" and "Mr. Factory", which I think are both from "Sunshine", if I'm right. Did you guys feel responsible to have a bit of a social consciousness because you knew that this music was being listened to by younger people?
  • RD: You know, that was kind of in background but really it was meant as an entertainment for the people who read Archie Comics and the people who watched Saturday Morning Cartoons. Really, I don't think we went that far for teaching or putting up social comments although it did kinda creep in the third and fourth season because a new songwriter came in to write some of the songs with Jeff. So I noticed that change a little bit. But to my mind 90% of what the Archies is, 99% of what the Archies music is is just good, fun, Rock N Roll Pop music for kids who were just getting into the music. And you know, just finding it. I think the Archies were probably just the stepping stone for kids to find way more music that interested them. But it was the beginning of it.
  • LP: And definitely for certain people that were growing up at that time that were just the right age for it, they have a super-fond affinity with The Archies. And actually segues into present day. Did you put together this bill that's going to be on Sunday for this Bubble Gum Show at BB King's? Was this your idea?
  • RD: Yes. It was my idea, I put together a big Las Vegas show about five years ago called "Bubble Gum Bonanza" and I, The Ohio Express, the 1910 Fuitgum Company, Archies and you know, it was a six hour marathon of Bubble Gum music, and we sold it out in Vegas. It was very very successful. And last year, I was at BB King's in January and did one with Bo Donaldson and The Heywoods, I think you saw it. But this one is my show, I put it together, it's Ron Dante's "Back to the Sixties II". I just wanted to do something fun for the baby boomers. And it's funny, we cross generations with this music. This music is still so popular in commercials and TV and movies that even the kids of the people that grew up on it like it, and their kids like it. I must say, there's some durability in the music and I think this bill... We're playing Hershey in September, in Hershey Pennsylvania. And I think, what a great place for the Bubble Gum show. It's just perfect! A candy place! There's chocolate everywhere. And it's kinda fun. I do it for fun, I wanna keep my friends working and I just want people to see this music live, because it's a lot of fun. And, it doesn't get that well represented out there. You get a lot of eighties groups, you get a lot of Du-Wop, you get a lot of Eighties, but that middle stuff, it seems that you need more of.
  • LP: Yeah. I'm super-looking forward to it. I'm really glad you put it together. I'm only 31 and I sort of found Bubble Gum through, I know they were big influence on Punk Groups in the Seventies, which I was really into when I was younger. You know, Joey Ramone named himself after Joey Levine.
  • RD: Yeah, the Ramones recorded "Indian Giver"!
  • LP: I know that in the late Seventies a lot of the punk people started looking towards old Bubble Gum songwriters, singers and producers to produce their old albums. Like for example, there's a very popular Go-Go's album from the early eighties that was produced by one of the guys that used to produce Bubble Gum singles. I was wondering if you were ever approached to produce any of that material?
  • RD: No, you know, because of my association with producing all the Barry Mannilow records, I kind of got into that middle of the road groove. Where the people who call me would be Dion Warwick or Olivia Newton John or Paul Anka. I would have loved to have the other type of groups, the Ramones-type of a group call and ask me to produce. Because I'm basically a guitar player who grew up on Rock N Roll, you know? But I got sidetracked with the Mannilow stuff and it kind of bagged me during the seventies, so I never got anything. But it's funny, I just got a call, you won't believe this, I just got a call from a Detroit, kind of, Punk Rock, R N B group, let me see if I have their e-mail. The Dirtbombs, is the name of the group. They just called me and they want me to sing on their new album.
  • LP: Oh, awesome!
  • RD: Do you know the Dirtbombs?
  • LP: You know, I haven 't heard of them, but I'm definitely going to look them up now that you mentioned them.
  • RD: Yeah, The Dirtbombs, they just called me and said "We're doing a new album, we've done two or three albums on independent labels and we want to do a whole album dedicated to Bubble Gum rock!"
  • LP: Oh cool!
  • RD: Yeah, they just e-mailed me, they want me to sing on one of the cuts on the album, they sent me this song. And I said I'll do it! So it's funny you mention that and here they are, finally somebody's contacting me from that world.
  • LP: Do feel like you're surprised by where you have fans and how far reaching your music is?
  • RD: It is a surprise. Thank goodness for Facebook and all the social networking sites, which I'm on now, because I really get a feel for the broad array of fans I have out there, from all walks of life and all age-groups and it's a happy surprise. I must say, I'm very pleasantly surprised that the music communicates to new generations. It's so cool.
  • LP: Yeah, it must be very affirming. So, another question regarding The Archies, I know that you are super-into collecting Archie memorabilia, and I was wondering, after all these years, do you still feel like you have a connection with the character? Is that why? Or is it because it's a representation of a certain time in your life?
  • RD: I have an immense love for The Archie characters. Archie, Betty, Veronica, Reggie and Jughead. They were a very important part in my younger life as a kid reading the comic, and then becoming the voice of Archie. And it seems like every article that's written about me, they mention The Archies, even though I've done Broadway shows, I've produced other big artists, it's something that's near and dear to my heart. I feel a psychic connection to the character. I keep abreast with what's going with the comic books, and how things are going there, what deals they're making. I see that in the comic books Archie got married and a couple of things. I follow it very closely, I think they're doing a good job on the comic. It's still very successful and it sells almost a million comics a month! So they're still very successful and I have a great love of the comic books and the Archie characters.
  • LP: Yeah, it's an interesting time for you to be playing this music because in the comic book world, there's sort of a creative renaissance for the Archie comics. I wonder if you're going to find new fans because they found the comics, even those that are being published now. "Sugar Sugar" and "Jingle Jangle" are referenced fairly regularly. Every few issues The Archies will be playing a song and it'll be "Sugar Sugar" or "Jingle Jangle", which is interesting to me because they were recorded so long ago now!
  • RD: They just keep coming back and back! The good thing is, it's in the media environment, you just can't mention The Archies without mentioning their number one record. And it doesn't matter if it happened forty years ago or four years ago, it's a statement that millions and millions of people fell in love with the song and the records and the albums that came after. And I think it's a good thing and it also has it's own niche. There's nothing quite out there like The Archies, the teenagers in the high school who have a band. There's nothing like that in the comic books, everything else is so sex and violence driven. The comics and graphic novels there's blood and gore galore. Superheroes doing everything in the world. But this is something people can really relate to because it's a good slice of Americana. And I think they've upgraded the comics to where it's incorporating a lot of groups, which is even better. Because, you know, they had to expand a bit and take it beyond that. And you know, they're still trying to get an Archie movie done and an Archie TV show done. And things will happen once they set those deals.
  • LP: I'm on a bubblegum music message board and I asked for questions for you and Joey and someone had an interesting idea. I know that you have a lot of experience producing Broadway shows, of doing a Broadway bubble gum juke box musical. I was wondering, have you ever had that idea or being involved in a producer's perspective or creative perspective?
  • RD: You know, I've thought about it. It's an interesting idea. After Smokey Joe's Cafe hit we talked about it after that, after Jersey Boys opened, because it's sixties music, we talked about it. It's just a question of getting the rights to the songs and what's the theme. I know, the people who produced Grease, the original show and bring it back every year, it's this production team in New York City, it's this man and wife, they had an option on an Archie Musical about five years ago. And they were developing it, but they could not come up with a good book. And I think, until you come up with a good storyline for Bubble Gum Music or The Archies, you have to be very careful with theater, because it could ruin the brand to have a problem musical, you know? So, I've often thought of a Broadway Musical, it's still a good idea. I've actually written a cruise ship show called "Bubble Gum" that is out there that we may sell to one of the cruise lines. That might be the beginning of the Broadway show. You know, with the top twenty Bubble Gum songs of all time in the show with a little story line. So that might happen. It's a good question.
  • LP: Actually, a friend of mine wrote some spec songs for that Archie musical a few years ago. And I know that they were going for at time, they gave them a list of stuff to write, but it was going to be original music. I think it was supposed to sound sort-of late sixties, early seventies period music. I spoke to some of the Archie comics people that there was an interest in an Archie musical. That's an interesting development. I hope you sell your cruise ship show. That sounds totally fun.
  • RD: It's totally fun.
  • LP: I know that you wrote and did an Archies Christmas album a while ago, and fans were wondering if maybe had any plans to do a follow up to it? Another Archies record with you writing in that style?
  • RD: I was thinking about it, seriously. I have again, have to get the rights from the Archie comic book people to use the name and the characters again. They gave it to me then, and that was a one-time thing. If I get it from them again, I may do another upgraded, a brand new Archies album. I would love to do that. It's just a question of getting the rights from the Archie comic book people. They're trying to get brand-new things going with the younger groups and things, which I don't think will work. But they're still working on that. But I would be happy to do another album. Maybe Archies go country, and do a pop-country album. With everyone dressed in the hats and boots and stuff! With the girls looking cool and the guys looking great. That might be fun.
  • LP: That country-pop stuff is popular right now.
  • RD: It's danceable and, of course, country music sounds like pop music from the seventies anyway.
  • LP: Definitely.
  • RD: It might be a fun thing to see Archies go country. But I'm always up for that.
  • LP: One last question, what are you most looking forward to on Sunday for this show?
  • RD: Well, it's just the audience participation. I'm really happy to see the fans come out and see this music performed live, and by the original people who were the originals, who made the sounds and me and Joey, the original voices, and the 1910 will be the band. And I'm looking to forward to meeting all the fans, because I come out after the show and I'd love to meet everybody. It'll be one big party, and I want everybody to come down and have a good time on 42nd St!
  • LP: Well, I'm definitely going to be there in the front dancing along! So, thank you!
  • RD: You're very welcome! Bring your friends! Thank you!
  • LP: Oh yeah, I'm bringing a few pals and am looking forward to seeing you play again. This was a great interview, thank you so much. This was really fun for me.
  • RD: Well, use what you can and what you like, and hopefully you'll be able to see it when it's finished?
  • LP: Yeah! It's going to be a front of magazine feature of Elmore magazine. It's going to be a review of the show and then snippets with the interview with you and the interview with Joey. So it'll be really fun. For me it's a real dream to get to write this, because I feel like, at least among my peers, I'm totally in the minority when it comes to loving this music so much. But it really means a lot to me and you should know that it's definitely been an uplifting and interesting part of my life over the last few years. So thanks!
  • RD: You're very welcome. One last thing, and you know, it's funny, I started my career seven blocks up the street from that club, 49th and Broadway at the Brill Building and it's funny. It's full circle, to come back to the area and finally do a terrific show with so many people I started with. Joey Levine and I both worked for Bobby Darrin in the Brill Building years ago. We worked together for years, we were staff writers together at Bobby Darrin's publishing company. It was like seven blocks up the street. That area has so much history for us, it's unbelievable. It's magical. And hopefully we'll bring some of that magic to Sunday night.
  • LP: So it feels like a homecoming too.
  • RD: It does, very much. Last time I was there, I didn't realize how important that area was to me. I didn't mention it to the audience, I was too interested that the show went smoothly for all the acts.
  • LP: Yeah, that was a stuffed bill! That was a lot of people!
  • RD: There were a lot of people on that show! At least this is three of us, it'll be a tight show and Joey and I will do some commercials that we sang together, which is going to be even more fun. We could just do a whole evening of commercials, Joey and I! But we won't we'll do our hits!
  • LP: Awesome! Alright, I'll see you on Sunday, Ron!
  • RD: Thank you so much brother! I'm looking forward to it!
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